An Interview with Dr. shAINNA aLI

June 2023

• Licensed mental health counselor, author, and advocate

• Conducted a study on Guyanese-American perceptions of mental health

• Follow her @drshainna

The Study

In a 2023 study on Guyanese-American Perceptions of Mental Health, researchers led a phenomenological study in which they explored the lived experiences of 30 Guyanese American individuals to understand how mental health was perceived.

“Every single participant shared once believing mental health was negative and then transitioning to seeing mental health as something that is helpful, healthy, important and potentially positive. This expanded view from mental illness to mental wellness that all of the participants shared about that transition being a huge part in their ability to take charge of their mental health--that to me was life-changing.”

What inspired you to begin conducting research related to Guyana?

When I was in my doctoral program, I realized Guyana had the highest suicide rate in the world at the time. I did not know about that before. I was really shocked. I don’t think it’s often that you get to hear such a devastating statistic and think, “Wait a second, I’m probably positioned to do something about this.”

It shifted my research line altogether because I realized how personal it was for me, especially the more I looked for resources. I was consistently disappointed by the lack of resources and all the hurdles.

I wanted to hear the stories of my people. I wanted to hear older people. I [didn’t] want to hear the statistic, I wanted to hear the stories behind the statistic. I wanted to understand what Guyanese-Americans perceive about mental health, what the obstacles were to mental health, what helps them for mental health, and I wanted to work from that purview instead of [from] all the textbooks, research articles, etc. that are usually validated for white Americans. It doesn’t fit for us. So that’s what started our research endeavor.

You mentioned having a background in cultural anthropology. How did this help frame your research in terms of removing bias and encouraging inclusivity?

My cultural anthropology background changed the way I saw mental health getting into the field. I realized at the time, mental health was from a cultural perspective. It was seen as, “This is what we do for African-Americans, this is what we do for Asian-Americans”…and it’s so singular, whereas, I have always operated from such an intersectional perspective.

I said, “What if I were to use my background in cultural anthropology and who I am as a Guyanese-American mental health professional seeing this problem? Then, what is the best practice from a cultural relevance standpoint?” In practice, that has been the way that I connect with people the most. Helping them see these different intersections and how they’re all very important vs. just race or just education or just occupation, which is many times how we treat not just mental health, but people.

It’s like, this is your one label and that’s all you get. So, I wanted to use that [cultural relevance standpoint] not only in my field, but in the research. If I came in with someone who looks totally different, doesn’t understand the culture, especially if I think about the remnants of colonialism, the project may not have had the same findings, the same honesty, the same transparency. Sometimes people say that’s bias, but that’s my truth. That’s their truth. I can speak to all of that at the same time too.

What cultural or professional obstacles did you face in your mental health journey?

I was definitely supported, but an obstacle was not being able to discuss this with my family. Not being able to explore [this project] with community–that whole thing was hard.

I think about people who have the privilege of having generational careers. Like, “my grandfather did this, and my father did this”, and it’s like now you have someone to go to. I didn’t have that. And when I looked for that in the community, I still didn’t have that.

I loved seeing other Indo-Caribbean first-generation transplants who are also respectively killing it in their fields. That was inspiring to me and I drew from that. But having to piecemeal things like that, I would call that an obstacle. I didn’t have someone directly to go to.

On the other side of things, the open access journal that we wanted to publish, was intentionally because we wanted other people to be able to read it; that it didn’t just exist in this locked manuscript. Because from Westernized mental health perspective it’s, “Why do research on this very small population? What does this matter? Isn’t this just like other Hispanic populations?” 

And you have to do the whole, “Guyana’s not a part of, you know…” like constantly having to educate folks about where Guyana is, mental health

considerations based on the unique history, that was hard to have to substantiate on both sides.

As a mental health counselor, when did you first realize you were struggling with your own mental health and how did you reconcile with it?

It was in college that I realized, pretty much self-diagnosed first, that I was struggling with anxiety. I’m not sure if I had even really heard the word “anxiety” used in reference or in terms of an anxiety disorder. I don’t think it had even come into my view, to even conceptualize before then.

I realized, because I was going through the symptoms of anxiety and learning about human nature and normal human behavior, “I fit all of these [symptoms].” As someone who was very academic my whole life, it’s like, “Here’s this very obvious fact that I’ve missed.” It quickly piqued my curiosity. How did I not know? What caused this to be missing or overlooked or minimized? Does anyone know? Do other people know?

It snowballed so fast from there and that was the juncture that I realized I’m going to use my background in anthropology, my interest in people, my hope of wanting to inspire and empower people through their health.

I couldn’t imagine doing anything else. I am so grateful to do the work that I do. It is deeply meaningful to me. I recognize that not a lot of people have the privilege of doing work that their heart is in, so how lucky am I to be able to do something that I’m passionate about every day?

When you discovered the crisis around Guyana’s suicide rate, it’s amazing to me that you made the connection that you could add value to the situation through research. And now, it’s pushed your career into this meaningful, community-oriented work just from that one moment. 

A lot of my work is on self-love because that was a huge cornerstone in getting me through living with anxiety and realizing, “I’m probably gonna have this for the rest of my life so how do we heal through it, live with it?”

Self-love, especially in our community, gets a lot of kickback. We are a collective community—like, “Don’t do things just for yourself”, and I think that comes from, unfortunately, a misunderstanding of what self-love is.

Self-love is community love. When you do take a moment to tend to you, you fill your cup so when someone else’s cup is empty you’re able to pour into that. It’s not, “You fill your cup to just keep it only for yourself.” There’s space for both: Making sure you take care of yourself in order to be able to help your community and when you are unable to take care of yourself, can you go to community? I see it as really symbiotic. 

How can families, including younger and older generations, work together to break out of outdated norms around mental health and sustain the dialogue on mental wellness? 

Something I deeply believe in is that the first-generation Caribbean population in general, has more access. It’s not really fair to hold the past generation accountable to not having that. In order for me to truly heal individually, the collective also needs to at least be offered the opportunity to be brought to that level. So I think about access and privilege there. It’s a humbling perspective: Now that I was able to have this access, how can WE have this dialogue?

If you know that your view might be healthier than the stereotypical, stigmatized version that someone else is holding, approaching it with humility and a gentle questioning-- that’s a helpful approach to it. One of the approaches I took was asking about my family history. Approaching it with curiosity can be a helpful thing first.

And we can check ourselves. If we’re wanting to have this curious, helpful stance but you feel that angst, then that means there’s something in you that you need to regulate. So that’s the individual component, so you can try to regulate that first so that the conversation can be as healthy as possible.

What are your hopes for your research article and shifting Indo-Caribbean stereotypes around mental wellness?

One of the things I dream of with this article is, Guyanese families read this resource and say, “That’s interesting” or “I’ve said something like that” so that it’s commentary.  There’s something more external, then it’s a little more neutral.

Most of us were raised [hearing], “Don’t say anything about mental health and definitely don’t say anything about mental health to a stranger.” I had to really push through, going against some of our culture by holding elders responsible for unhealthy thoughts, judgments, etc.…I developed an inability to withstand stigma. But it was worth it.

Mental health is health. It is important, we all have it, we can all do something about it. It’s such an empowering mindset shift that can cause someone to reach out to a therapist or to have a courageous conversation with a loved one.